[TV] The Doctor Who Thread: Series 5 - Spoilers Within (Also, Amy's Crack)

[Icon-UK]

Originally Posted by Ranger of Oz

Goodies followed by the good Doctor on ABC. Brilliant.

Watching "Final Score" (and trying to guess the second team's score from the intonation used as they read out the first teams score), then "Doctor Who" (From Third Doctor onwards for me), then "Saturday Night at the Movies"... Wow, that takes me back

[travelion]

Originally Posted by cassius335

Pointless suicide is pointless. Rest of episode awesome.

The Doctor on ego trip is a dick. Tendou Souji levels of dick. Not out of character, though. There's no-one to stop him, after all, except RTD's odd and rather depressing seeming belief that to be a good human you have to be a dead human.

i love it when it happens because the after effects kick in, and his true character will come out, which is what is happening now.

[Sadsmileyface]

Originally Posted by night ranger

2009 if they said 50 years ago in 2059 it would be 2009. You fail math.

And you fail English.

[thunderzordpower]

Christ, its really sad to see him turn evilish. I really dont want tennants dr to leave. Its been the ultimate show (behind mmpr and buffy) with him.

[thunderzordpower]

To the master question, I remember watching an interview of russel davis (maybe on season 3 dvd extras) that they left the master open to a return with "the Ring". The one he wears and someone picks up after he's burnt.

[Gold Samurai]

The Doctor has gone mad.


That is all

[AtoMan]

Originally Posted by SnoopsWarner

http://www.ranger-retrocenter.com/misc/ufailenrish.jpg

And you fail English.

It's not as noticeable as the "50 years ago" mention though.

And, huh, her granddauther's reason to fly into space must have changed from "what happened on Mars" to general WTF. Instant teleportation from Mars and shooting herself in head. Yeeeeeah.

And yay, Crazy Karl from Spellbinder 2nd season!

[Gold Samurai]

Someone brought this up

The Master also said "I'm a Time Lord I have that right" and he's saying the same thing in this episode.

[RedSavageWarrior]

Originally Posted by AtoMan

And yay, Crazy Karl from Spellbinder 2nd season!

What, Land of the Dragon Lord? That was pants. 1st season all the way!


Was it wrong of me to sit and watch "The Waters of Mars" again and eat a full bag of Jelly Babies?

[Gold Samurai]

"The Mythical Doctor"

His legend continues.

"I'm the doctor and you're in the biggest library in the universe, look me up"

[Mr Tuesday II]

I still chuckle at the Mars base being named "Bowie Base One"

And I wonder if they'll ever know, they're in the best selling show?

Is there life on Mars?

[GundamExia]

Just finished watching it with my roommate (who I've managed to convert into a big fan of Doctor Who), and that was pretty damn awesome. It was pretty shocking to see the Doctor's attitude shift, but it was awesome to see Adelaide take charge and ensure that history still moved as it originally would have, more or less.

[TuxedoK]

Just started watching Water of mars....So the Doctor thinks in Wikipedia?
Phillip is going to be pissed.

Love the Gadget hotrod

and the Doctor. I almost would of liked to seen an entire season where he had that additude.

[rangerspider]

Yea i still need to finish watching it myself.

[Gold Samurai]

Originally Posted by TuxedoK

Love the Gadget hotrod

Really that part seems to be hated from what i've read

Originally Posted by Bacl

Exactly. And this idea that there's all these points in time that MUST STAND, as ordained by God apparently, doesn't hold water when you consider that history is apparently constantly rewriting itself. It would take so little to make it so that the Mars Base never happened, or happened differently, or as we see from last night's episode--happen but without the complete loss of life.

I think that embracing this "It was meant to happen!" concept in a show about time travel, and about constantly changing the course of events, is self-defeating. It begs for nit-pickery.

Instead, they should have simply had the Doctor state that HE won't allow her to survive, because HE wants the future events to unfold, because HE loves humanity so much. That would have added more to his decision to walk away when he COULD save her.

Under the above scenario, his saving her and then finding that history stayed on track would be perfect to instigate his idea that he can do whatever the hell he wants, shape history and save all the people he wants to save: Timelord Victorious.

I still maintain the episode could have been awesome with just a little more respect for its audience. Less music beating home the desired emotion. The monster design was actually quite creepy, the shots of them softly dripping water in the background were very effective, but cut back on the quick-cuts to their faces while they mug at the camera, and avoid the zombie-shamble-cliches.

Axe the robot.
Overall, the biggest mistake was revealing to the audience the fate of the Mars Base and its crew right away. It was done in bad taste, over-emphasizing that everyone died again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again. It also took away from the tension that would have been created if the Doctor silently looked at them, us inferring what happens to them all from his expression, and then says soft yet firmly, "I can't help you. I have to go."

Originally Posted by Bacl

Alright, here we go! (WARNING, SPOILERS!)

Best Line:The Doctor, doctor, fun.

Runner-Up: They tell legends of Mars, long ago, a fine and noble race who built empires out of snow: The Ice Warriors.

I want to stop right here and talk about these two lines. To me, they represent what makes Doctor Who, in particular the new series, excellent. The first line celebrates the doctor, but keeps it simple and clever: his name is his rank, and his purpose is fun. My runner-up line is beautiful, softly spoken and intelligent, it embraces a goofy concept from two decades ago and strips away the camp, bringing it full force into the high quality 21st century. The name, Ice Warriors, and the idea of scaly green martians are both from another era (and some say another show entirely), and this episode could have easily ignored them and just done whatever the hell it wanted. Instead, it decided to to make the idea work. The way the Doctor poetically describes the ancient Martian race allows for the Ice Warriors to sound mythic instead of camp. It stops there too, not embracing fanwank, but moving along. Nothing more to say.

How would I rate this episode? This may surprise you, but I'd say uneventful. I know that the Timelord Victorious has really excited and made an impression upon a lot of people, but I consider this episode empty. It is too involved in itself; it reminds me of a thirteen-year-old obsessing over themselves in the mirror. Was the whole point this gripping psychological moment in the Doctor? Consider me ungripped. Where is the story? The adventure? Half of this episode is slow motion of the Doctor walking away while cardboard characters scream unconvincingly over his intercom. Why is this supposed to be so hard for the Doctor? There only half a dozen people on the base, and by the time he is heading for the TARDIS, half of them are already dead! I'd be more enthralled if Doctor Who had chosen a historical event that involved more people, and had bigger stakes for humanity: Hiroshima, the Holocaust, Slavery, Apartheid, Pompeii. Pompeii? Who said Pompeii? That brings us to...

Ridiculous Rehash: The Fires of Pompeii. The Doctor accidently arrives at an fixed point in history and tries desperately to escape, only to be delayed long enough to begin to care about the people he is leaving behind to die. We've done this already! Quite frankly, we've done it better!

Doctor, Whose Laws?: The best thing about Doctor Who in the new era is that it never bothered to explain the rules of time travel. "Trust me, I'm a Timelord. If I explained it, you wouldn't understand!" That was the generic answer from the Doctor whenever companions asked things like, "Why can't we just go back in the TARDIS to before all this happened?" I'll accept that. I prefer hearing "Magic door" to some long techno-babble nonsense. A lack of solid rules means you don't ever have to worry about contradicting yourself. Star Trek always got into trouble with this; they'd have all the rules layed out, and then constantly contradict themselves. Now apparently the Doctor can change some things but not others, only other things he discovers he can change, only not really. Huh!?!?

Look, don't tell me certain points are fixed and HAVE TO STAND, because the events of Waters of Mars would not have stood if bad guys had won in any number of prior episodes. Carrier Knights taking over Elizabethan England would have meant no Mars Base disaster. The Doctor claims the even the Darleks while attempting to destroy all of creation would stop and allow this person to live because her future is written in stone. No way. That just makes no sense.

The Worst: The robot. Fuck the robot. Fuck whoever thinks kids would like the robot. Fuck whoever thinks they should consider kids first while writing a Doctor Who. Why did we need the robot? Did the person who created the robot love Jar-Jar Binks? It looked like it was about to fall apart. The special effects team thought it would look cool to constantly be sparking, not that this makes any sense. The flames exploding out its backside as it reaches speeds of 15 miles per hour is ridiculous, and Wesley Crusher at the controls screaming and chewing the scenery as it does so was the worst part of the episode. I'm sorry, but if I am playing a video game, and the game goes haywire, my joystick does not start moving around freely. Watching Wesley-Wannabe scream wildly as he waggled his fingertips was simply painful to watch. Trail of flames? Get fucking real.

Short Attention Span Editing: The 700 flashes to the crew member date of deaths. This episode really had to beat home that everyone on the Mars Base dies, didn't it? Person after person after person, music echoing the shocking reveal that everyone already knew. I wonder why they didn't just make the word DEAD glow red and draw bright yellow circles around it. Talk about overkill! You know what? If they had never had those stupid cutaways to the crew bios, and just had the doctor stare silently at them, it would have been more powerful. We'd all have figured it out on our own, even children (yes, they do have brains) and when the Doctor finally tells whatshername that she dies on Mars, then it would have carried more weight.

Just what were those computer screen supposed to be, anyway? Wikipedia on the TARDIS?

Scoring the Score: 10% new music! Is it that hard to compose a new song? I really was sick of hearing the same scores from previous episodes. A debate arose on the boards recently about whether or not it was a good thing that a new composer was coming tot he show. Trust me, it is a VERY good thing.

360 Out of Right Field: Oh, alright, I get it. He's eeeeeevvvvviiiiiillllll! That sure happened fast. He walks away slowly, hearing their screams, and then returns in beam of light to save the day by doing absolutely nothing. Now he is a god, no God Himself! /cackles!

Where did this mood shift come from? Why did we need it? And why does the Doctor suddenly think his ten minutes of arrogance means he is going to die? Where is the connection?

Final Thoughts: The only real cringe worthy moment was when the Doctor hot-wired the robot and trails of flame shot out from its backside while Wes Crusher chewed the scenery. All in all, not that long. But the lack of cringe does not a good episode make. I really wish someone would explain to these folks that children loved this show when it was made for a more mature audience. They were scared by things that were intended to scare everyone. Now the show seems to aspire to the same level as Mighty Morphing Power Rangers. It is Walt Disney Presents: Doctor Who (for kids!). The show is marketed, mass-produced, and fantastic plastic. Five new episodes over the coarse of two years didn't help any, nor did learning Doc 10s replacement before even the first special aired.

I love David Tennant, and at first I did not ever want him to leave, but if means a fresh show-runner and (hopefully) renewed perspective on what this show is then so be it.

GRADE: C, flat.

[travelion]

Originally Posted by thunderzordpower

To the master question, I remember watching an interview of russel davis (maybe on season 3 dvd extras) that they left the master open to a return with "the Ring". The one he wears and someone picks up after he's burnt.

what master question?

[Cameron Samurai]

I love the brass, pig-headed ignorance of comments like "Now they pander to kids", usually made by desperate elitist plebs with no real reason to hate the specials.

DW, wobbly sets and five pence budgets et all...was always meant for fucking kids, as well as the whole family. If they think Moffat will change anything, they are beyond stupid, and shouldnt be watching this series at all because they don't understand it's target audience will never change.

These are the same plebs who read the New Adventures novels and listen to the overindulgent Big Finish audio adventures, and get whinjy when the television product doesnt do what they do.

And lo and behold...the conceited one's runner-up for best line was fanwank. Credibility shot to hell. How about aiming for something a little more contemporary and NOT stuck in the past? It'd show a side of the boring critics we NEVER see...diversity.

[Crosis]

I'm still a little confused. So he brought back 3 people, the 2 told the story about what really happened and Adelaide commited suicide on earth instead of dying on mars, Now as he said the end result was the same just the details changed a bit, and they showed the "wikipedia" entry that her granddaughter still piloted the first lightspeed ship. and yes I know it was a fixed point in time, but the end result was still the same so then whats the fuss?? (besides him going loopy with time lord power)

[Cameron Samurai]

You honestly think a suicide of ANY sort at Christmas is a kind of victory not worth any fuss?

Had she not offed herself and forced time back on it's proper course, it WOULDNT have been a fixed point anymore would it? The Doctor would have gone on and made sure other "fixed" points he stumbled on didnt even match.

Circumstance forced Adelaide's hand, not fate. Right place, right time, but the black mark is she died as a hero AND a coward, rather than only the former. Any Suicide AFTER a crisis is a coward's way of coping with survivors guilt.

[Nasaniaru]

^^ I don't think the suicide was survivor's guilt as more it was to set the future as straight as possible after The Doctor went and screwed with it all. Adelaide heard the awesome things that will be done in the future with human-kind and wanted to ensure those moments happened. Adelaide didn't commit suicide selfishly, she did it to keep that critical fixed point in time fixed. She committed suicide because The Doctor "saved" her.